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Mike_Oettle
Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 495
Location: Port Elizabeth, South Africa
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 Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: Name from arms |
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In the meandering discussion of Bei Dawei’s queries, David Cohen wrote:
| Quote: | | I would presume, especially in the earlier period of the development of heraldry, there were many armigers who had a shield before they had a surname. I wonder if in fact, there are cants going the other way, that is, the shield inspired the surname, or the surname was a play off the shield, rather than the other way around. |
There certainly are instances of names deriving from coat-armour.
Perhaps the two best known will be familiar from the title of a play that caused a sensation a few decades back: Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead.
The titular characters were, in Shakespeare’s Hamlet, courtiers at Elsinore. The actual Danish families bearing these two names did in fact derive their names from their arms.
I am uncertain of the actual connection between the surname Rothschild and any arms associated with it, but the name translates as “red shield”.
Regards,
Mike
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Mike Oettle |
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Jerzy Lucki
Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Posts: 260
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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There is a likelihood that Rosenkrantz and Guildenstern were inspired by actual people who were armigerous though this Rosenkrantz's arms were not canting.
http://home.att.net/~numericana/arms/brahe.htm
Can you tell me the story of when these families acquired arms and what surname they used or how they were known prior to assuming arms?
There are of course many Goldstars, Roses, Rosenfelds, etc. These are both very common and widely distributed surnames - complementary or pretty ones at that.
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Jerzy Franciszek Łucki |
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Joseph McMillan
Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 316
Location: Alexandria, VA, USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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I believe the Rothschilds' name comes from the house/shop sign at their original headquarters, a red shield. Their subsequently adopted arms, if I remember correctly, would be blazoned as Gules an oval targe bendwise sinister Argent.
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Joseph McMillan |
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Jerzy Lucki
Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Posts: 260
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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Tools of the trade or a shop sign (usually an object hung in front of the shop in earlier times of greater illiteracy) are common inspirations for merchant or tradesman surnames.
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Jerzy Franciszek Łucki |
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Kaj Malachowski
Joined: 17 Mar 2010
Posts: 75
Location: Warsaw, Poland
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Name from arms |
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| Quote: | | I would presume, especially in the earlier period of the development of heraldry, there were many armigers who had a shield before they had a surname. I wonder if in fact, there are cants going the other way, that is, the shield inspired the surname, or the surname was a play off the shield, rather than the other way around. |
I guess the following article may perhaps be dealing with this issue?:
Canting arms or canting names
Rylance, T.. (1980) - In: Coat of Arms Ser. NS, Pt. 4 (1980) p. 257-258
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Kaj M. |
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